We mixed the thinset, it wasn't as smooth as the utube video, but it was close, and we gave it ten minutes. The Kerdi membrane should be applied with the standard procedure, using a hogg brush or a notched trowel to spread the thin-set mortar and a roller to ensure appropriate adhesion. For the floor, he should've put a mortar bed, then a membrane that goes over the curb, then another mortar bed. The Kerdi-Line prefab pans and drains make me feel way more comfortable with the waterproofing. Additionally, you can use KERDI-BAND around corners, seams, and joints to help with a waterproof installation. If you choose to use Aquadefense as a shower pan liner, be sure to continue it up the walls at least 6", tying into your waterproofing on the walls. Hardibacker is a VERY "thirsty" material that sucks the moisture out of the mortar VERY quickly and I don't like it. Your Get free, zero-commitment quotes from pro contractors near you. Fiber cement board is available in 1/4-inch and 1/2-inch thicknesses. Both Kerdi Board and cement board are designed to smooth out uneven spots on the installation surface, create an unbending layer that wont flex underfoot, and also provide a waterproof barrier. Yes, Kerdi membrane can be installed over plywood. (3ft-3in wide)Or will the Kerdi membrane (with seams taped with kerdi band) prevent each board from moving . Also, apply the acrylic mastic between the Create curved designs around pipes or columns using the vertically-grooved KERDI-BOARD-V, or use L-shaped KERDI-BOARD-E panels to enclose similar. To get the most protection from the cement board, it should be installed in a way that ensures it is waterproof, in addition to being secured properly with the right adhesive and screws. http://www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/Shower-System/KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/Schluter%C2%AE-KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/p/KERDI_SHOWER-KIT, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup. And second, since it's foam, the board is super easy to cut with just a utility knife. If installing large format tiles (over 15"), be sure to give the Aquadefense at least 8 hours to cure first. Anyone who has done more than 1 shower shouldn't start without knowing that. We store towels, medicine, toiletry supplies, first-aid gear, massage devices, facial steamers, spare Painting your garage is a great way to improve the look of the space and make the walls easier to clean. @JimmyFix-it - You are right. RedGard can be used on a wide range of interior and exterior surfaces. A 1/2-inch thick, 3 x 5 foot sheet weighs just 7-1/2 pounds, compared with 45 pounds for a similar size sheet of cement board. The main issue caused by non-waterproof cement boards is the eventual warping and damage to the tiles, making it difficult and costly to fix without removing all the tile and starting over. While cement board is a reliable tile underlayment, it isnt completely waterproof only water-resistant. I hope you made the guy flood test his work prior to tiling the shower floor. You are telling someone "to have" an artistry that not only takes art skills, knowing how to mix mortar for different situations, and a good amount of practice. I like to use a garden sprayer to keep the thirsty Kerdi wet. These multifunctional tile substrate and building panels are thus perfect for creating bonded waterproofing assemblies with tile coverings. Since the existing wall board will be removed, I'd prefer to go a little extra and install a water proof cement board type base so the tile has a solid substrate even if it were to get wet, such as from a plumbing leak, or from infiltration on an exterior wall (as unlikely as that might be). "thanks in advance :-) I know so little about this stuff, but when I watch videos (made by schluter-kerdi) everything looks so tidy and perfect - maybe that's not realistic'''" - Lisa Jasper It should look better than that and it's hard to tell but the wall stud spacing looks extreme and more than 16" I could not see if the screw heads where covered in the photos and in the one picture you can see that the screw and washer fitting where not covered. Most cement-based thin-set mortars are suitable; however, it is important to check the manufacturers instructions to ensure that the product is approved for use with Schluter systems. Schluter says that the Kerdi membrane and tile can be installed over standard gypsum wall board without any problems. Project Type: Tile / Category: Bathroom. Well, I'm going to give you three different ways to seal the backer board at the tub flange. How do you show the depth of a hole in a drawing? Schluter-KERDI is a pliable, sheet-applied, bonded waterproof membrane and vapor retarder with limited crack-bridging capabilities. rev2023.3.3.43278. #2. To prevent those movements from transferring to the tile floor, consider installing an uncoupling membrane between the concrete and tile surfaces. The grid lines on the surface are incredibly helpful for installation and making neat cuts. The Schlter system tends to be more durable than a cement board, but it also depends on the particular application and the weather. The fastest method [for me and possibly other dilettants] is to stroke the knife at a diagonal to the comb marks, top down, center out, pushing all the air before you with short, overlapping strokes.-Thinset needs to be pretty darn wet: Needs to stay put when combed, but should be soft and shiney. Installation. To line niche shelves, for instance. Kerdi board, on the other hand, is an extruded polystyrene foam panel. Too little, and the kerdi will never show you gray, no matter how you sweat. Cement board is typically used in wet areas, such as bathrooms and areas with a lot of moisture, because it is waterproof and provides a level of protection from water damage and long-term moisture exposure. Plus, if you use the mold and moisture resistant drywall, it will be extra insurance against mold. But I did want to understand the cost breakdown as the walls then become WAY more expensive than it would be with Redguard. Additionally, if the cement board isnt waterproof, it can also cause mold and mildew issues, as well as dry wall damage from the moisture seeping through. DensShield is one common brand. True cement board (Durck, Wonderboard) is my first choice as a tile or Kerdi backer. There is a product called Kerdiboard you might want to look into. there should be a small gap between the backer board and the tub. Tile Shower SurroundCement Backerboard Location? As far as the tile/prep work, you are right that he is shifting the blame. Self-leveling underlayment has many of the same advantages as a dry-pack mortar bed but doesnt require as much skill to install. Here are the fundamentals of tile installation over cement board. We like that the Kerdi membrane material installs easily over almost any substrate, including standard wallboard. Kerdi-Shower-T/-TS/-TT is a prefabricated sloped shower tray with integrated Kerdi waterproofing. Hi.I have a unique situation. Finally, make sure to select a thinset that is appropriate for the job, check the manufacturers recommendation, and always follow the instructions on the product label. Kerdi, a waterproofing membrane made of a special polyethylene fabric, should be allowed to completely dry prior to tiling. If so, that means breaking up the floor pan. What changes do you suggest to make Bathroom looks more updated? My idea is to block in and install the tub in the existing corner, erect the new wet wall, and use hardi-backer to shim the wall out over the tub flange, then apply kerdi over the whole thing.Does kerdi take offense at being installed over hardi? When doing so, it is important to ensure that the drywall surface is clean and free of dust, grease, and loose paint. Whether or not you need a Kerdi membrane is a factor of use. We are DIYers who have already remodeled one bathroom successfully, but this is our first time using The Schluter shower system. Kerdi does admit that you can use cement board. Once all areas have been properly waterproofed, the walls can be tiled and grouted to create a waterproof surface. I just a few weeks ago put kerdi on top of hardi-board in my shower and it was PAINFUL! This means that even if your waterproofing system leaks, the cement board will remain intact. Why are physically impossible and logically impossible concepts considered separate in terms of probability? Step 6: Choosing the Next Tile. It only takes a minute to sign up. The thickness of the tile is important, and should be known, but not because it changes the method of building. is the contractor creating a waterproof schluter-kerdi shower? Both may be effective substrates, but Kerdi Board boasts significant advantages. But a mortar bed does have advantages. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[728,90],'remodelormove_com-box-3','ezslot_2',173,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-box-3-0');Yes, you can put Kerdi membrane over cement board. Once its applied, the last step is to follow up the waterproof coating with a waterproof sealant. I will say that to is easier to put the membrane over drywall than cement board. More waste, yes, but I think you have to have a LOT of practice to hang those huge sheets like mongo does. When installation is done properly, Kerdi membrane offers a waterproof barrier that can protect the plywood below from moisture. Then you can apply a thin layer of KERDI-FIX to the board, the membrane over top . 120 sq feet including the floor. It looks like Kerdi membrane is ~$2/sqft ($200 for a 108sqft roll) and kerdi board is $3.7/sqft ($115 for a 4x8 sheet (Lowes)). There are many different types of underlayment to choose from, but they all serve the same purpose. To install Kerdi Membrane, start by applying Schulter ALL-SET mortar (or similar) to your cement board substrate using a 1/4" x 3/16" V-Notch Trowel. An additional layer of sealant can also be applied on the seams for extra protection and water resistance. Kerdi membrane prevents water damage and mold development. If you want a cement board, use Durock or Wonderboard. if you go with vapour barrier, then cement board. Additionally, the use of modified thinset with KERDI could lead to cracks and other issues down the line as the modified thinset can shrink and pull away from the KERDI membrane over time. Waterproofing cement board is relatively simple and there are several different waterproofing products available. Hardie board is a cement-based siding product that is water-resistant, but not waterproof. Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? Finally, use a roller or brush to ensure that the membrane is secure and has no wrinkles or air bubbles. LONDON. We tried adding water to the thinset, we tried using a larger notch trowel, but nothing seems to make the Kerdi stick. Let's start! We also found that using a heavy rolling pin worked wonders for really setting the Kerdi. Kerdi-Board panels allow the installer to prepare and create a broad range . Seems like I've been using the full measure of water the bag calls for, plus about 10%.-50 lbs of thinset at a time is too much for an amatuer. I imagine we could share some good stories. It is important to overlap the edge of the membrane so that it covers slightly more than half of the drywall behind it. I appreciate your help and your quick response. First, it's super lightweight compared with the rest. Yes, it is possible to put Kerdi over regular drywall. Personnaliser mon exprience l'aide de cookies, Landscape Architects & Landscape Designers, Outdoor Lighting & Audio/Visual Specialists, epoxy or marine paint over greenboard for my shower walls (not tile), Need advice on bathroom remodel - using hardiebacker boards, HELP! Allow the primer to dry completely before proceeding with the KERDI installation. Even the tiling subs have moved away from mortar walls because of the labor cost and lack of craftsmen in the industry. When I tried putting up the first sheets, which were only 36" x 39", and even though I had SOAKED the hardi, to the point water was pooling on the floor, the thinset was already drying before I got the Kerdi up, and I couldn't get it to adhere properly no matter how hard I tried. Needless to say, the drywall turned to mush. To properly seal a cement board for a shower, its important to first properly prepare the surface. Using cement board and a sheet membrane . After priming, use an approved adhesive to adhere the KERDI membrane to the drywall, making sure the edges are well sealed and joints are tight.if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[468,60],'remodelormove_com-medrectangle-4','ezslot_12',156,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-medrectangle-4-0'); A successful installation of KERDI requires well-prepared surfaces and a proper application, so take the time to properly prime the drywall before installation. Kerdi Board as a whole is much easier to install than Cement Board. It's a lightweight polystyrene board faced with Kerdi that comes in various thicknesses that you can use in place of drywall or cement board. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Most of the entries in the NAME column of the output from lsof +D /tmp do not begin with /tmp. It may take more than 1 beer:). As a contractor, I have been using Kerdi since it came out. Schulter Ditra is manufactured by Schluter Systems and is a 1/8 thick polyethylene uncoupling membrane that is specifically designed for tile installations. Hardi is definitely a "thirsty" substrate but will work, even without a primer of RedGard. Putting this stuff on walls is difficult and time . Its important to note that Kerdi membrane is not a structural base layer, so plywood should be installed and reinforced as necessary based on load requirements. I circled one area, but there are lots of these edges." - Lisa Jasper The Kerdi band should be smooth and flat - not wavy/ "3) there is no membrane of waterproofing on the hardboard across from the "wet wall" after 5 1/2 feet up. Prime first to create a flat, uniform surface that is free of dust, grease and other debris. The colour is different. Furthermore, if another trade, such as the shower glass installers, makes a mistake then you'll be . Overall, putting Kerdi over regular drywall can be done, with the proper steps in place to properly install the membrane and its components. Also are you saying that you wet ("booking the Kerdi") the Kerdi, as well? With Wedi products, the compound curves are easy to produce quickly. I guess I could save a few $ and laminate 1/4" drywall there instead.IOW, is hardi OK to level out the tub flange?Not that it matters, but the tile will be 3x6 carrara to the ceiling.Casey. Yes. Waterproof showers are the trend today, so RedGard is an excellent alternative to cement boards that act as vapor barriers. By: Author Olin Wade (Remodel or Move Stuff). It costs more but it;s worth it for the ease of install IMO. Let the mortar dry for 24 hours then test the shower. ), Schluter SET, ALL-SET, FAST-SET or an unmodified thin-set mortar is recommended. Building Panel: Price $ 119 00 $ 202 06 $ 279 00. The benefit of using kerdi is we can lay it over drywall, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup. Should I redo this wall to avoid a mold sandwich? 1. Kerdi membrane can be used on cement board, drywall, and, as you may have guessed- greenboard. If he did the framing for the shower, then in order to measure for it correctly, he would need to know how thick the tile is so that he can avoid exactly this problem. How do I align things in the following tabular environment? Then cement, sand and water are mixed together to a crumbly consistency and floated over the lath to form a flat surface. This allows the cement to properly hydrate, resulting in a strong, dense bond coat. There is definitely skill & planning required to doit right. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[580,400],'remodelormove_com-large-mobile-banner-1','ezslot_17',164,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-large-mobile-banner-1-0');As an added precaution, you may want to consider to adding a water-resistant layer afterwards, such as a caulking or flashing tape. Fixing that is not that easy though. I have corrugated metal shower surround & grab bars. Following these steps will help ensure that your shower space is properly sealed, and thus that the cement board is well protected from moisture. I used this to seal a 3 1/2 by 6 1/2 foot shower with 7 foot walls. Euler: A baby on his lap, a cat on his back thats how he wrote his immortal works (origin? Thanks to Mongo's earlier post, we knew we'd have to spritz the Hardi -- but found that even that wasn't quite enough. Houzz utilise des cookies et d'autres technologies de suivi similaires pour personnaliser mon exprience utilisateur, me proposer du contenu pertinent et amliorer ses produits et services. Important to overlap seams in a shingle method. Just wondering how effective is the tile on kerdi membrane vs the traditional cement backboard where tiles are glued directly to the drywall? Finally, it is important to remember that any thin-set that has been exposed to moisture must be replaced. Any competent tile contractor would float the wall in mortar giving you a stronger, level, perfectly flat, and square surface to properly install tile. To ensure that the Kerdi is completely dry prior to tiling, inspect the inside of the membrane for any signs of moisture or condensation. Kerdi Board vs. Cement Board. I'm thirsty. Is this overkill? Kerdi Board is also significantly lighter in terms of weight than cement board, meaning they can be transported and lifted into place with ease evening hauling five panels at a time should be no problem. When installing KERDI with unmodified thin-set mortar over particularly dry and porous substrates, it is recommended to wet the substrate first, in order to help prevent premature drying or skinning of the thin-set mortar. Can you remove tile from Kerdi membrane? The cement board can also become weakened and start to flake away when it absorbs moisture, causing ugly spots and patches to start appearing on the wall. You're correct if you use the shluter kerdi membrane you do not use a vapour barrier since it creates a sandwhich effect that doesn't allow the substrate . Out of curiosity, why are any of you suggesting backerboard at all? A hundred times better to have too much before you comb than too little. What are the differences between "paperless drywall" and "cement board"? In . Kerdi can be installed first on drywall or cement board. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Not even the plumber's fault as it was just a bad valve. In normal residential use I wouldn't worry about it. Modified thinset adhesive is a premixed product that contains latex or acrylic components which make it quite a bit more flexible than regular thinset adhesive and therefore better suited to some applications. Depending on your project and the specific cement board you are using, you will want to select a thinset appropriate for both.if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[468,60],'remodelormove_com-large-leaderboard-2','ezslot_15',158,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-large-leaderboard-2-0'); The two primary criteria to help guide your selection are the type of cement board you are using and whether you are installing it indoors or outdoors. Thanks to all for the feedback. That means that you do not have to rely on a surface membrane or worry about the board failing if the core is exposed to water. Kerdi 3 ft. 3 in. That's the way us "Tile Guys" do it all the time. Problem with very thick cement board/ tile/bullnose edge, Steam Shower Slip Joint Detail - The secret is in the boarding stage. Schluter approves their waterproof Kerdi membrane over drywall. Using self-leveling underlayment takes careful prep work. Find the website that's made specifically for you. About an argument in Famine, Affluence and Morality, Acidity of alcohols and basicity of amines. Allow the adhesive to cure for the amount of time recommended by the adhesives manufacturer. @DMoore- OK, I agree that with redguard it would be redundant. Step 3: Apply Thinset. Required fields are marked *. This creates a strong, waterproof tile backer that also functions as an uncoupling membrane. I also used the Kerdi drain. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. A mortar wall is better and can be customized easier. Kerdi board is a kind of waterproofer because these kinds of boards are made of XPS foam. Glass mat gypsum board is a better choice. Since the existing wall board will be removed, I'd prefer to go a little extra and install a water proof cement board type base so the tile has a solid substrate even if it were to get wet . Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. GoBoard is a kind of backer board because the main elements of a backer board are cement, silica, fiberglass, etc. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? While cement board and grout are not waterproof, Kerdi is and can even be directly installed over drywall. And by 'booking the Kerdi' I mean we put it in the bathtub, sprayed it with the handshower, then booked it (just like wallpaper). When screwed to the framing, thin strips of cement board fracture more easily than thin strips of fiber-cement. 4. It's still applied to cement board. The shower tray eliminates the need for a mortar bed. Actually if you watch any pros work (not on crappy shows) on TV you will see them use backer board 99% of the time. Why is there a voltage on my HDMI and coaxial cables? Kerdi really offers very little advantage over hardiboard plus membrane. link to How To Organize A Bathroom Closet. However, a cement board is generally easier and less expensive to replace if a repair is needed. For all the substrates listed in this Handbook (e.g., gypsum board, cement backerboard, etc. If you are laying tile on floors that are wavy or out of level, self-leveling underlayment is a great solution. All shower/tub areas should have concrete board (I prefer hardiboard). When I do another shower I'll use real cement board, not Hardi-board. ! #1 - Backer board has nothing to do with HD or any other big box. Ditra is a 1/8-inch thick polyethylene membrane with a layer of anchoring fleece on the underside and a grid of square cavities on top. Everyone knows brick and stucco, but what about fiber cement and metal? x 48 in. Ready to join the 100,000+ homeowners matched with pros? Why are Suriname, Belize, and Guinea-Bissau classified as "Small Island Developing States"? Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? Some being easier to work with than others. Keep in mind, that, just to be safe, most professionals choose to install a waterproofing membrane on top of the cement board when installing in wet locations like tub surrounds or showers. I want to mount a cast iron bathtub, but not pull down my 1905 plaster and lath. Cement board is particularly vulnerable to water damage, so waterproofing can help protect it and help it last longer. You just need a hammer and wonderbar for the walls. Hi David. . Additionally, it is important to waterproof cement board before tiling, as the grout and tiles can help keep the board watertight. Recovering from a blunder I made while emailing a professor, Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain. craft paper or plastic is great if the inspector wants it but it is (should be) doing nothing for a tub surround that has HB/redgard/thinset/tile. En cliquant sur Accepter , j'accepte l'utilisation des cookies telle qu'elle est dcrite plus en dtail dans la Politique d'Utilisation des Cookies de Houzz. After today's tutorial, you'll gain the confidence to transform your old bathroom into a new space. When cleaning thinset off of Schluter membranes, the manufacturer recommends using a wet sponge and taking care to avoid any scoring or inconsistencies on the surface of the membrane. Another advantage is that the polyisocyanurate core of foam boards is waterproof. Should I use Kerdi membrane or cement backerboard? Whether youre installing tile on a floor, wall, or countertop, choosing the right type of substrate, or underlayment, is critical to preventing breaks and cracks in both the tile and the grout. Unlike cement boards, you can bend this material without it breaking. Kerdi membrane is a waterproofing material that is designed to be used in wet areas such as bathrooms and showers before tiles are installed. Yes, KERDI membrane will stick to cement board. A.Sean Gerolimatos, technical services manager for Schluter Systems, responds: With a few exceptions, unmodified thinset mortar is required for setting ceramic and stone tile over Kerdi membranes (800/472-4588, www.schluter.com ), as well as for bonding overlapped seams and connections to Kerdi drains. What? When having to put it up on the wall or measure it for size, you will find that you can get the exact measurements you need without much trouble. Sledge hammers for the floor, that might take a bit of time. How can I find out which sectors are used by files on NTFS? I've seen preferences regarding HardieBacker and the cement board products such as Wonder Board. Now there's nothing particularly wrong with fiber-cementit's just not my first choice. A good rule of thumb is 24 hours per inch of thickness, then one more day on top of that to be sure. When it comes to using thinset with Schluter products, the Schluter-Systems website recommends using unmodified thin-set mortars specifically designed for use with Schluter membranes. To line niche shelves, for instance. Re: Kerdi on shower curbs. It only takes a minute to sign up. We tried soaking the cement board and applying the kerdi in small sections. If youre not careful, the boards can also leave behind abrasive sandy crumbs that can cause damage to your shower base or tub. The back side of the drywall fails and it is just as bad or worse than if it had an issue on the tile side. Look at it this way; Withe Kerdi, you either trust it or you don't. Yeah it seems that the only products that will be compatible with cement board and the kerdi membrane are bostik ditra-set and schluter all-set (or one of schluters other products).